Digest Number 146

Kathryn; thanks for your note and welcome to the group. It’ll be great to hear
from you to benefit from your experience. The cogquit style of quitting has
worked for me so far - it just plain makes sense.
Steve throws parades? I always knew there was a party animal under that
serious demeanor!
This is so encouraging. I feel like I’ve become such a lump the past five
years. How long did you smoke and how long did it take you to get back enough
breathe to do these activities comfortably?
Yes, he always gets on me like white on rice when I try to start my negative
thinking. Very positive. The good news is that it’s contagious.
Welcome.
- Cat

21 Responses to “Digest Number 146”

  1. Neva Marjory Says:

    Hi Kathryn - good to meet you.
    3 yrs quit - fantastic :) I’m coming up to a year quit, and feeling
    really good about it. I’d love to hear more about your quit - hope
    you’ll get chance to post more soon.
    I’d tried many times to quit over the yrs, and spent a long time
    looking for a different way to do it, a way that made sense. Like
    you, I met Steve and learned about cognitive quitting in the weeks
    before I quit, and to me it was like finding the missing piece of a
    jigsaw, a way that made total sense.
    The first weeks especially were hard - learning how to ABC life’s
    events, and practising putting non-smoking responses in place when
    those triggers and craves rolled my way (occasionally steam-
    rollering me in the process!). It was tiring - often exhausting. I
    coped with the detox, the mood swings and tears while I was
    in ‘recovery’. I kept a diary of it all which, one day, I’ll knock

    into some shape.
    At this stage if feels totally normal not to smoke. The sheer
    beauty of a cognitive quit is that we’ve developed the skills and
    acquired the tools to deal with all those life events that used to
    have us flying for a cig, and put more appropriate responses in
    place.
    Catch you soon,
    Pam
    — In CognitiveQuitSmoking@y…, “Kathryn watcham” <kathruns@h…

  2. Raleigh Missy Says:

    the fact
    Who is that person and why are you listening to him?

  3. Neva Marjory Says:

    Hi Pam.
    Reading your post just filled me with such hope for the future. I
    was always happy for you that you stuck so well to your quit but I
    figured that you had it all together from the beginning; like maybe
    it was easy for you. I don’t want to sound like I am knocking anyone
    who finds any process of quitting easy, that is not my intention. I
    am happy for everyone who succeeds beating this habit. But now,
    knowing that you had the crazies too, yet you are approaching your
    one year anniversary so gracefully, really makes me feel better about
    succeeding. You never moan and groan and now I understand that at 11
    months plus, maybe, just maybe, I won’t either.
    The “steamroller” really caught my attention. I haven’t felt the
    steamroller yet but maybe I should keep my mouth shut.
    Thanks for writing that post. It was more helpful than you know.
    Linda

  4. Raleigh Missy Says:

    Hi KatieLou,
    I’m in AZ for a week yes, and won’t have the same access net wise that I
    would at home, but I’m watching you guys :))

    and part of the message is that we are ‘nicotine addicted’ and will be
    for life? There’s a serious inconsistency in that persons message.
    That’s not ‘free’. That’s a perpetuation of a mindset that means you will
    never be free of the need to be ‘on guard’. KatieLou, if I sound angry,
    it’s not at you… it’s just that the ‘addicted for life’ belief infuriates
    me. It may be the most counterproductive load of horse shit dispensed by
    the quit smoking community. We are ‘nicotine addicted’ ONLY as long as we
    have an active chemical addiction. Once we’ve got through detox and some of
    recovery, what too many continue to call ‘addiction’ are the ‘habit
    patterns’ we developed as new smokers and have established as *the primary*
    way that we deal with our lives. The ‘addiction’ is, at this point, about

    established behavior and NOT about a physiological/chemical condition. We
    are NOT addicted for life. However, we will respond with ‘cigarette
    thoughts’ as long as we allow the belief that ‘a cig will help’ to continue
    unABCed.
    If you’ve been listening to Pam and Pat and any other long term cog
    quitters, you’ll have heard them say that they no longer think of cigs as a
    response to any event they encounter in there lives. They’ve retrained
    Warren to offer up appropriate options and, in doing that, have become
    ‘free of cigarettes for life’.
    Normally I’d say “yes, trust what seems right to you”. But in this
    case, I’d say “no, you should be listening to me.” :))
    Steve

  5. hassan_11 Says:

    In a message dated 31/01/02 23:46:36 GMT Standard Time,
    ddsteve@… writes:
    I’ve got to say I agree wholeheartedly with what Steve said in this post -
    I’m just 3 and half months into my quit but through doing cog quit, using my
    abc’s - foundation statements and what if’s I very rarely think of a cig as a
    response.
    That to me is amazing - but really its simple all I’ve done is to practise
    what Steve and the other oldies are preaching and trained my ‘hermy’ (my
    version of Warren) to tell me other things to do to respond to situations
    where he used to say ‘a cig will fix it’.
    So listen and heed you newbies - well done to all of you for your successes
    to date.
    Indi

  6. Lester Sierra Says:

    Sheesh, Katie…………(and Gail)
    I surely hope one of you - or someone else reading - can add to this
    thread…………
    I have TRIED before (or so I thought) but it has/was never been with the
    same determination I have this time………..
    I have NO way of knowing (because who on earth would advertise) how many
    tried and gave up - but I do know quite a few people who made it - most
    of them in my own senior plus age group - and most of them with no help
    …….
    and out of the group I know - those who got through that first few
    months stayed quit………….
    {I know this because as soon as they felt assured of their own success
    they tried their best to get me to join them!!!!!!}
    This past month has been torture!!!!1 :) I do NOT want to repeat it………..

    I cannot imagine that should I be able to maintain this quit I would
    give in to any kind of temptation to smoke again……………
    Any/all insight appreciated………..
    Right now I would LOVE to reach out and lite up!!!!!!! But damned if I
    will!!!!!
    Jean

  7. hassan_11 Says:

    In a message dated 31/01/02 16:32:31 GMT Standard Time, katie@… writes:
    Katie Lou
    This sounds very much like a book that I read to help me quit - I thought it
    was just in England but obviously its all based on the same principle.
    The principle as I understand it is that life is all about choice, all about
    making choices minute by minute.
    Unless we are locked up and the key thrown away we have the freedom to smoke
    - all of us.
    It doesn’t matter what doctor has told us, if we have no money, if we don’t
    like smell we all have freedom. there are consequences to all choices. so
    if I choose to smoke one now - then based on my past track record what I am
    actually choosing is to smoke a pack a day until I decide to quit again.
    This was what I understood the writer to be saying. It wasn’t about
    constantly telling myself I am a nicotine addict but telling myself ‘I have
    the desire to smoke’ and making a choice about that.

    Do I choose to accept the discomfort caused by this desire (which in the past
    would have been eased by smoking) or do I choose to do something else to ease
    the discomfort.
    Was the discomfort actually caused by the desire to smoke or was it a
    discomfort which I eased by smoking so now my hermy tells me all of these
    discomforts can be eased by smoking???
    Having a history of addiction in my life I can see where this guy is coming
    from.
    For those of you who are new to the group I used to be addicted to alcohol
    and nicotine.
    The minnesota model of treating addiction will tell you that once you are an
    addict you are always an addict.
    I am also a qualified addiction therapist:))))) qualified long before I
    decided my own addiction was a problem.
    I therefore do not necessarily subscribe to one particular model of treatment
    of addiction and believe quite strongly that what works for some will not
    work for others and it is each to his own recovery.
    But what I do believe in is what Steve was saying earlier - if I am addicted
    to something, no matter what it is, once I have stopped using this substance,
    gone through detox etc then I am no longer addicted. So I refuse to go
    through the rest of my life being an ‘alcoholic’ or a ‘nicotine addict’.
    What I am quite happy to acknowledge is that I have an addictive personality
    and my drugs of choice in the past have been alcohol and nicotine. So I know
    that if I choose to drink or smoke to ease any distress, discomfort, disease
    in my body then the choice I am really making is to return to being an addict.
    Just my thoughts on this topic.
    Namaste
    Indi

  8. hassan_11 Says:

    In a message dated 01/02/02 06:11:18 GMT Standard Time,
    jbrinklw@… writes:
    WHY?????
    Tell me some of the ‘pleasure’ lighting up would achieve - honestly think
    about it before you start rattling the keyboard.
    What real pleasure will you get from inhaling all that smoke and hot ash/tar
    into your lungs?
    Indi

  9. hassan_11 Says:

    In a message dated 01/02/02 18:27:40 GMT Standard Time, katie@… writes:
    We’re all very patient around here when it comes to others - its ourselves we
    have problems being patient with and want everything to come together all at
    once.
    Now in reality life isn’t like that so we all need to remember to ‘be
    patient’ with ourselves as well as others.
    You are doing well so keep it up
    Indi

  10. hassan_11 Says:

    In a message dated 01/02/02 20:07:56 GMT Standard Time, todora@…
    writes:
    I wonder why we have this automatic expectation that to quit we need to
    constantly munch our way through all of this junk?????
    Substitution or false beliefs???
    Any ideas out there?
    Indi

  11. Neva Marjory Says:

    Luckily I haven’t felt the need to substitute food for cigs - no
    point in replacing one hand to mouth action for another. I eat if
    I’m hungry, drink water if I’m thirsty.
    Katie UK

  12. Neva Marjory Says:

    That sounded a bit ‘cocky’ - wasn’t intended. Having had such an up
    and down few weeks it was one of the things that had pleased me.
    What I didn’t add was that I’ve put a couple of pounds on, so
    hopefully the exercising is going to sort this out.
    Katie
    — In CognitiveQuitSmoking@y…, “katie2905uk” <katie2905uk@y…

  13. Neva Marjory Says:

    That is such a good question. Last year when I tried to quit, I
    would eat so much at dinner that my stomach hurt. It definitely
    wasn’t substitution because I still wanted a cigarette when I finally
    finished. I always wanted a cigarette when I finished.
    I may be making this up but I heard that I would have to gain 100 lbs
    to make up for the good I was doing by stopping smoking. The quit
    was the most important; deal with the weigh gain later. It gave me
    carte blanche to eat anything I felt like anytime. I had spent my
    adult years watching my weight and then someone said eat what you
    want and lose it after your quit is secure. However, the weigh gain
    became more important than the quit.
    Is this what you meant by false beliefs?

  14. hassan_11 Says:

    Well I don’t know about all this running naked through the streets - its
    enough to scare the whole population of England the thoughts of me doing it.
    But my eldest daughter is doing a moonwalk through the streets in her bra!!!
    Its power walking a marathon at midnight and its to raise money for breast
    cancer - hence the bra (course she is wearing hers all decorated up on top of
    her clothes - bit of a coward like her mum:)
    Anyway to get back to this weight thing when quitting. I’m a lot like Katie
    Lou I have been a size 10 UK all my life again pregnancies excepted. and in 3
    1/2 months I am now a size 12. This is very scary and was one of my real
    fears about quitting.
    Now apart from going mad at the beginning where I was eating a bar of
    chococalate a day (my reward thing) I haven’t gone overboard. All I am
    actually doing is eating 3 meals a day and maybe some light supper before
    bed. But shit I’ve had Christmas to deal with and two really big social
    events where food was very ‘pile the pounds on stuff’.

    I read somewhere a long time ago that most smokers who quit will easily put
    on anything up to two dress sizes and a stone or more in weight. The theory
    behind this is that most of us who were concerned about out size didn’t
    really eat. When we felt hunger we lit up until hunger went away and thats
    how we controlled out weight. So for me I would expect go put weight on cos
    they reckon that this will be the normal weight for me if I hadn’t smoked I
    would always have been this size.
    So providing I eat sensible 3 times a day (most of the time) I don’t expect
    to gain anymore and in fact would expect to lose some soon cos spring and
    summer are just around the corner. Maybe I’m gonna be one of those who needs
    to go on a diet in the summer to compensate for what I eat in the winter.
    But so far I’m not having any panic attacks - don’t worry you lot will be
    first to hear me.
    love
    Indi

  15. Neva Marjory Says:

    There’s been some debating here tonight about changes in eating
    behaviour i.e. substituting food for cigs, and dealing with weight
    gain. I’m posting an extract here from the article ‘Of beasts and
    boats’ from Steve’s site, which I think is very relevant here:-
    Pam
    There are several ways to minimize ‘rocking the boat’:
    1 - A wildly fluctuating blood sugar level effects mood, the ability
    to
    think clearly, even the way we feel physically. Do yourself a favor
    and
    don’t over do sugar consumption, either sweets or pasta. Get your
    sugar
    from fruits and eat light balanced meals. (Remember the 10 o’clock
    coffee
    and donut and then struggling to stay awake an hr later? Or what

    about that
    huge meal that makes you feel like you need a several hour nap? You
    don’t
    have to subject yourself to this.) Improper nutrition and/or
    excessive junk
    food only sets you up for more stress which will be dealt with by
    eating
    more junk which will set you up for yet more stress and it just goes
    on and
    on. Not much different, actually, than the nicotine cycle you’re
    trying to
    get away from. And while I’m on the subject of eating…… of all
    our
    normal behaviors, eating seems to be the most closely connected to
    smoking.
    The actual hand to mouth motion of eating is close to that of
    smoking. The
    feeling of ‘fullness’ from chewing and swallowing is very similar to
    what
    we experienced when we’d light up and inhale deeply. If smoking is a
    behavioral response to the everyday events of our lives, and we’ve
    allowed
    eating to replace a cigarette, then while we may not be smoking, we
    *are*
    perpetuating the very same behavioral responses that were our smoking
    habit. It would seem that encouraging an action that so closely
    mimics
    smoking would virtually guarantee that your urges to smoke will hang
    on
    tenaciously. Yet the general advice in most quit smoking venues
    is, “go
    ahead and eat to your heart’s delight. Deal with the weight gain
    later…… Anything as long as we don’t smoke”. Personally, I think
    this
    is dangerous and misguided advice. Weight gain may seem like a
    secondary
    issue, but it’s a problem that has been the undoing of many a quit.
    It’s
    not uncommon to hear, “I’ve put on sooo much weight! I hate the way
    I look.
    Nothing fits anymore. I hate myself for getting so fat. I didn’t
    have this
    problem when I smoked.” This is generally where the “Deal with the
    weight
    gain later” advice leads. Unfortunately, as quitters, for most of us
    it’s a
    few months and a few too many pounds later before it becomes clear
    to us
    that unbridled gluttony is NOT effective quit management. Another
    interesting little bit of info… most of us are in the 40+ age
    group. At
    this point in our lives excess pounds rarely come off easily.
    Alternatively
    ……. we might consider taking a first step toward taking control
    of what
    we eat by asking ourselves, each time we want to eat, are we ‘mouth
    hungry
    or stomach hungry’. Depending on your answer, determine an
    appropriate
    response. If that’s too confusing, then eat 3 balanced meals a day at
    regular intervals and determine ahead of time what ’snacks’ are
    allowable(fruit/veggies). This way, when you get ‘hungry’, you’ll
    only have
    to glance at the clock to know if it’s time to eat or if you’re just
    experiencing some other ‘urge’. I’ve said these things before and,
    as often
    as not, the response that comes back is, “But I can’t quit smoking
    AND
    control my eating at the same time.” or, “I can’t give up ‘all’ my
    vices.”
    This is probably true if the quit is nothing more than a roll of the
    dice… or if we exercise no control and can only hope the quit will
    stick.
    But if we’re actively taking back our lives, if we’re reclaiming our
    bodies
    and souls, if we’re adult enough to make the decision to quit
    smoking, then
    we can and should do whatever is necessary to succeed and that
    certainly
    includes taking responsibility for what we put in our mouths and why
    we put
    it there.”

  16. hassan_11 Says:

    In a message dated 02/02/02 04:29:51 GMT Standard Time,
    catmohan@… writes:
    Hey Cat
    I’m fine - just been sooooo busy but hopefully thats coming to an end - I’ve
    got some catching up to do with you and Pam so soooooon:)
    Just got to get through next couple of weeks then DH taking me somewhere HOT
    for a break!!!!!! This is going to be a ‘first’ for me so guess I’m going to
    be pinching your abc’s cos I know they will fit and I’m too lazy to write my
    own when I can use yours:)
    (((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))
    Indi

  17. hassan_11 Says:

    In a message dated 02/02/02 05:54:38 GMT Standard Time,
    jbrinklw@… writes:
    maybe its time to change your response - maybe try to identify the event
    before it happens - not necessarily the actual event cos if it comes out of
    nowhere its difficult - but you can plan something like this.
    a) I am going to have the ‘urge’ to smoke
    b) This means that I will be visualising the cig, smelling it and tasting it
    in my mind.
    c) When this happens I take a drag on a straw.
    So what if you were to try and write down when these urges come on - look at
    what has happened the couple of hours preceding the urge, try to identify any
    physical sensations (not just all this mind stuff, cos our minds can create
    images/thoughts which can last for a long time) which precede the urge.
    then your abc could look something like this
    a) Every day I get ……….. around about ……… time - this is the

    urge thingy
    This makes me feel that I can see, taste, smell a cigarette
    b) I can choose to smoke a cigarette, take a long deep drag on it and inhale
    all those noxious gases, chemicals, smoke and hot burning ash into my lungs -
    this will remove the urge until next time!
    I can simulate my dragging on a cig by dragging on a straw - this will try
    and fool my brain into believing that I am still going through the same
    motions without putting all the shit into my lungs and remove the discomfort
    - until the next time.
    I can do some controlled abdominal breathing as soon as the thought occurs
    and not let it get too intense which will remove the discomfort until next
    time.
    Do a tarzan breath - this is real good and works really well - take a deep
    breath in and as you breath out beat the top of your rib cage (below sternum)
    with softly curled fists. While you are breathing out slowly and controlled
    make a very loud AAAAHHHH sound.
    c) Make your choice.
    Now I’m not very good at writing these abc’s and often get them in the wrong
    order so no doubt Steve or Cat will chip in and correct this if its wrong.
    Namaste
    Indi

  18. hassan_11 Says:

    In a message dated 02/02/02 06:09:05 GMT Standard Time,
    jbrinklw@… writes:
    ok so why do we have this need - what feelings are we trying to deal with -
    remember we are talking about feelings not emotions:)
    thumb sucking would definately be a more appropriate response than smoking:)
    and not as harmful as pretzels!!

  19. hassan_11 Says:

    In a message dated 02/02/02 06:18:07 GMT Standard Time,
    jbrinklw@… writes:
    totally agree Jean - definately worthwhile:)
    Indi

  20. Neva Marjory Says:

    Hey Indi - good to see you back here - you’ve been making up for
    lost time round here today - So how’s about replying to a couple of
    the emails I’ve sent you? ;))
    Pam

  21. Neva Marjory Says:

    She heard me - we got to chat on icq finally. Good to chat again
    Indi. BTW thought that ABC you posted was great.
    Pam

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